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How to encode transparency in movie file for input to ZS4

I have an image sequence generated from a 3D program which has transparent elements - basically I am trying to composite 3D footage with real footage. However I can't seem to find any way of producing a movie file from the image sequence with maintains the transparency. I have tried various codecs with VirtualDub to build the movie but can't get it to work. Reading your docs leads me to think I need some way of producing a MPNG movie file but how ?

Thanks

By the way I am having the same problem with recent versions of ZS4 as has been reported in another thread - the process starts but the program doesn't actually start up.

By macdonaldj at 2006-04-22 08:24 | login to post comments | previous forum topic | next forum topic

use pure blue background

i don't know of many programs which support video/animation output files with transparency. what i used to do is to create a background in a rare, un-natural color like pure blue, so that it keys easily in zs4.

the the mpng codec which comes with zs4 seems to be a zs4-unique feature, i use it for exporting keyed footage for later use in an other zs4 project.

By countinn at Mon, 2006-05-01 07:19 | login to post comments

doesn't work

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately this doesn't help me in my situation: I have the ability to render out objects with their (partially transparent) shadows which I then want to overlay on top of real footage. Using a blue background means that the shadow becomes partially blue as well ('cos of the partial transparency) which then makes it virtually impossible to key. This is a great disappointment - how does integration of CGI/live footage work generally - surely this is a common use of compositors? The great benefit of CGI is that it can comes with a perfect key method (the alpha channel) - it's a shame if it can't be utilised directly.

I don't suppose you've ever considered, or would ever consider, adding the ability to import a transparent .png sequence ? This would solve the problem :)

Thanks for listening. Any other suggestions gratefully received.

By macwork at Thu, 2006-05-04 08:25 | login to post comments

alpha channel

the alpha channel is what zs4 would be using if it were to recognize the format... (currently only avi/mpng). What precise format is your rendering program using for output?

By countinn at Thu, 2006-05-04 09:53 | login to post comments

It renders an image

It renders an image sequence, currently .tiff files but author has plans for other types including .pngs hence my query about ZS4 being able to import .png image sequences. It's the conversion of the image sequence to a movie file that seems to be the problem - VirtualDub is what I'm using but no matter which codec I use, the alpha is lost.

By macwork at Thu, 2006-05-04 12:55 | login to post comments

Alpha render?

Just a question. Can you render your alpha channel? Or fake it?

By CubOfJudahsLion at Tue, 2006-05-09 16:06 | login to post comments

Sorry CubOfJudahsLion - I

Sorry CubOfJudahsLion - I don't understand your question :/

To the developers - are you planning any sort of image sequence import support in future ? I found another program (Wax) that can do use but I would prefer to stick to ZS4 as it seems more powerful

By macwork at Wed, 2006-05-10 08:09 | login to post comments

alpha and sequences

Alpha channel can be rendered (along with all the other channels) when choosing to export with the motion-png codec (mpng). This can not usually be imported by other software.

The faking of alpha channel (only) export can be accomplished by adding the following effect to the track which you'd export (for example Media Mixer): video effect->pixel filter->pixel channel ops->copy alpha to channel->a2rgb. This will result in a black and white sequence representing the alpha channel.

Image Sequence import/export sounds like a kool idea. I might tentatively schedule this for v0.954. Previously we've been asked to do this, but with more requests it becomes more likely to happen.

By countinn at Wed, 2006-05-10 10:51 | login to post comments

Thanks for considering

Thanks for considering image sequence import - I tentatively look forward to v 0.954!

By macwork at Wed, 2006-05-10 19:03 | login to post comments

tentative inquiry

I do wonder, when your program, whatever it's called, exports a sequence of images to a folder, will it also write some kind of index or information file? A file which would tell me how many frames per second were rendered etc...?

Is it possible to get a sample of such a file, if it exists?

By countinn at Thu, 2006-05-11 10:17 | login to post comments

Hmm, no it doesn't. The

Hmm, no it doesn't. The program, by the way, is Art of Illusion (www.artofillusion.org). Is this information actually necessary - Wax, for example, doesn't require it ?

By macwork at Thu, 2006-05-11 16:14 | login to post comments

thanks there

i appreciate the link. Will Wax ask you how many frames/second does the video (frame sequence) has? ... or can can enter it. I'll look into it... I've already fixed the *.tiff file reader for v0.953... cruisin here :)

By countinn at Thu, 2006-05-11 18:02 | login to post comments

Alpha channel rendering

When you create an 'alpha channel render', somehow you're causing your renderer to generate a grayscale image with the cumulative transparency of your scene. You know, white where opaque objects are found, black where there's none, and grays for transparency. In a nutshell: the more opaque the objects in front of it are, the whiter the pixel.

If you can't get this from your renderer through a built-in feature, then you might try to write a render plugin that does it for you (if you know Java), or you can fake it by making all surfaces white and self-illuminating but keeping the same transparency values. I know, that can be a lot of work.

Once you get the two matching sets of footage (original and alpha), you can use the alpha footage as transparency for the original. The original must set as parent of a keep alpha effect container, which in turn is parent of g2a pixel/channel/copy alpha filter (or r2a, or b2a, any of them will do since for grays r = g = b), which (at last!) contains the alpha footage. Make sure to turn on checkered backgrounds to preview the result.

I'm still wondering if it's possible to take the alpha channel and invert it, multiply it against the background, and then overlay the original additively on top. This would work better in many cases. I have to admit, though, that at this point I don't know if there's additive/multiplicative overlaying in ZS4.

By CubOfJudahsLion at Thu, 2006-05-11 18:05 | login to post comments

CubOfJudahsLion - Thanks

CubOfJudahsLion - Thanks for your help but I'm not sure I explained the problem well - I'm actually using a plugin to Art of Illusion that is being developed by another author. This allows the renderer to produce an image sequence (currently .tiffs) which contains an alpha channel. I am able to use single frames directly in ZS4 and the alpha channel works fine. My only problem was trying to do the same thing with the whole sequence. As ZS4 cannot open image sequences, my original enquiry was about trying to find some way of building a movie that retained the alpha info. If ZS4 supported image sequences, the problem would disappear :)

countinn - Thanks for your reply. There is no request for fps info when the sequence is loaded into Wax. The frame-rate for the project as a whole can be set, though...

By macwork at Fri, 2006-05-12 08:37 | login to post comments

My bad

@macwork: That's right, my bad. I forgot to explain why I was proposing an alternate solution.

Basically, there are oodles of utilities that transform sequences of images into AVIs, including the premillenial Dave's Targa animator and the likes of BMP2AVI, but it's much harder to find a PNG to MPNG AVI utility.

Yeah, I was getting ahead of myself there. :P

By CubOfJudahsLion at Fri, 2006-05-12 23:17 | login to post comments

importing image sequences

there's a page describing how to import images sequences (including transparencies into zs4)

http://www.zs4.net/loading-or-importing-image-picture-sequences-into-zs4

By countinn at Mon, 2007-02-19 14:25 | login to post comments

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